6. Podcasting in your 50's: a chat with Jen Vertanen, host of Your Best Damn Life

It's never too late to start podcasting. Both myself and my guest, Jen Vertanen (Be. Dare. Create.Your Best Damn Lifepodcast), are over 50 and doing the damn thing! 

In this episode, Jen talks about why podcasting is a true labor of love. We also dive into the permission she gave herself to stop podcasting when it simply wasn't fun, and the permission she gave herself to come back to it when she was ready. 

She also shares the importance of allowing yourself to have fun, play, and figure out what lights you up as you create your podcast.

Join us for a chat about our podcast processes, challenges with microphones and sound, and going with the podcast flow.

Recorded: October 2024

 
mentioned in this episode:

• Logitech Brio webcam
• CastMagic
• Descript

Follow Jen Vertanen: jenvertanen.com.

Also, check out the episode of Jen's podcast when I was invited to be her first guest.

Follow me on Instagram.
Listen to my other podcast: The Gay Podcast for Everyone.

Chapters

• 0:00 Podcast Intro
• 2:56 Jen's Podcast Setup
• 12:34 Getting back behind the mic
• 18:19 Giving your podcast permission to pause, grow, and play
• 24:17 Jen's podcast process
• 36:07 Podcasting outside a full-time job
• 49:31 Final Question: The one thing no one tells you about podcasting is...

Transcript

Transcript via Descript. (Semi-edited)

[00:00:00] Angela: All right. Is it recording? Yes.

Intro

[00:00:10] Angela: Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining me. My name is Angela Briones, and I want to welcome you to the space where we talk about podcasting. Sharing our voice and life behind the mic. In this episode, I invited a new podcast friend to join me for a chat. Her name is Jen Vertanen and she's the host of the podcast, your best damn life, the fun, the fuckery and everything in between.

Jen and I met on threads and she asked me to be on her podcast. And it was during that chat that I got to witness Jen's magic. Just chatting with her sparked this energy for me because. It made me realize that there was another podcaster just like me, over 50, working full time, balancing all the podcast stuff with all the real life stuff, and beautifully managing her website, social media, the podcast, all the things.

Jen started Your Best Damn Life podcast after a little hiatus with a previous podcast. And we're going to dive into that topic a little bit. We're also going to talk about giving ourselves permission to stop when we need to and to restart when we're ready again. Today's chat is all about the pivots of podcasting because even as we recorded this, there was some sort of power glitch that happened and I was kicked off the chat, but luckily I was able to jump back into Squadcaast where I record.

And we resumed the chat. So always, well, I have to tell you real quick that I'm kind of creating this podcast from scratch, right? As we all do with our podcasts, the intro that I'm doing right now is very similar to the intro I do on my other podcast, and I really want to make it different going forward and have a different blueprint for this podcast.

Right? We want our creative spaces to look and feel different, or maybe you don't, I do, that's something that I, I want. So it is a little weird for me to do this intro this way, because it feels too similar to my other podcast. And it's brought up a question for me, and I ask you the question as I ask myself - 

if we have more than one podcast, and they all kind of sound like a similar format, Is that a good thing or not? Maybe it is. Maybe that's finding our voice. You know what I mean? It's kind of like somebody's song on the radio, you know, there's a brand to it. You know somebody's song before they even start singing because you recognize the vibe of the music.

But also it's kind of nice to create something different. And I tell you this because that's something we're going to talk about in this episode. As you start your podcast, you can change things. See what works, see what doesn't work, see what fits, see what feels good. But we also can't figure out our voice until we actually start sharing it.

So this may be the one and only episode that sounds like this, but it also might not be. I'm not sure yet. And that's okay. You know, let's dive into more stuff about this. I hope you enjoy this conversation. This is my new podcast friend, Jen Vertanen. 

Jen's Podcast Setup

[00:02:56] Angela: Yeah, my dream mic. And I'm sure we'll talk about this is the Shure Mic. 

[00:02:59] Jen: I was just looking at that today. Okay. Hit record. 

[00:03:03] Angela: Okay, Jen Vernon, thank you for joining me and for supporting my new podcast journey. Cause like we just said, we don't know what this is going to be like really when you're the first guest, as you know, you're like, I really hope this works out.

I've never heard this podcast before. It could be horrible. I don't know, you know, 

[00:03:22] Jen: I highly doubt that. And, uh, we're just going to have fun with it. 

[00:03:27] Angela: Well, let me ask you, this is a good question, because we were just talking about this. I have three questions for you, just kind of like a get to know you, plus I'm still getting to know you.

Really? Yeah. You know, let's talk about the microphone. What kind of microphone do you have? We were talking about what we want to have. Yeah. So we'll talk about both. What do you, what do you use? So, 

[00:03:45] Jen: is it a Rode or a Rode? Rode. Okay. I have a Rode. Okay. When I started the new podcast, I upgraded from my Yeti, because I chose the Yeti because it's so aesthetically pleasing in my eyes, but the sound for me was not the best.

And I was like, this time I'm, I'm going to up my game. Same. And I, I do. I love this microphone, but now there's a new one I want. 

[00:04:12] Angela: Which is? 

[00:04:13] Jen: It's the Shure MB7 Plus. Is that the one? It has like the pretty LED light that you, you can, I learned today you can actually see. Customize the color of it. So I could have it to my, like one of my brand colors, but above and beyond that, the pro or the plus has denoising.

What 

[00:04:33] Angela: does that do? What what's denoising? 

[00:04:36] Jen: Well, so you could be in a room with, um, a lot of people talking or your air conditioner running, and it will only focus on your voice. And I listened to a woman, she did a YouTube, a demo for YouTube of different mics. And then. Between the MV7 and the plus and when that, when she, she turned her fan on like high speed and all of them, you could hear it.

And then the MV7 plus couldn't hear it. You didn't even know it was going except her hair was blowing from the fan. Really? Yeah. So sparking that you may have just heard, I didn't hear it. 

[00:05:13] Angela: But so you said the MV7 and the plus. So is there, is it, are those two different microphones, but they're both Shure microphones?

[00:05:20] Jen: Well, there's the original MV7. 

And then there's 

[00:05:23] Jen: the MB7 plus, I think I'm getting that right. 

[00:05:27] Angela: Gotcha. Well, all I know is anyone I know who has used a Shure mic sounds amazing. Yeah. They sound amazing. And I'm constantly battling with my sound. I have a Rode also, I have a Rode UT, no NT USB. So it just plugs in.

It's a USB plugin. 

[00:05:49] Jen: Yeah. Mine too. 

[00:05:50] Angela: It's, it's a good sound. It's solid. But. But I want the Shure 

[00:05:55] Jen: I put it on my Amazon wishlist because I've been spending so much money on podcast stuff lately. Yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna put this one on my wishlist and in the future I will have it. 

[00:06:07] Angela: Yes. So what else is your podcast setup?

What is your podcast setup look like? 

[00:06:13] Jen: Right? So I have a Logitech Brio webcam. 

[00:06:17] Angela: Okay, 

[00:06:18] Jen: see that's 

[00:06:18] Angela: what I need to get. I have my laptop right here. What is it? What is this called? Camera. I'm like, what is webcam. Yes. And it sucks. Like, here's the thing. It doesn't suck. It sucks compared to something newer, because this laptop is like four to five years old.

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So it's basically obsolete. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying?

[00:06:37] Jen: Well, and I have a, my Mac is. Maybe a year or so old and it has a 1080, but when I was researching, cause I, I'm playing with the lighting in my room cause it is darker. I was like, I'm going to try different webcams. And this was the third one I landed on and it, so when they do a comparison between the 1080 in my Mac and the 1080 of the Logitech Brio,  it is noticeably better.

And that's a common thing I hear about the, uh, the Mac 1080s. Is that they're, you know, they, they try to go for slimness and so it, it, the, the quality of the camera isn't what you would think it would be at, at the 1080. It's still fine when I go all in, I go all in. 

[00:07:24] Angela: Yeah. And see, I love this. I have two questions.

One, what's the price point of youri web cam? Like, is it a bunch of friendly,

[00:07:32] Jen: like $139, maybe. t wasn't, I tried a couple that were more expensive than that. And they were crap. Really? One was the. Trying to think what they even were. Um, Oh, one was like really high quality, super high quality for gaming, but to be able to adjust it, you could only, um, you can only adjust it on a PC and I'm on a Mac.

So then it just operates like a normal webcam and it wasn't a very good one. Oh yeah. So I returned that and then I got the Elgato face cam and I think that that, I think it's a good camera. I think mine was actually, did not work. Cause no amount of adjusting the settings, it was just always dark and what have you.

So I sent that one back and I got this one and I'm sticking with it. I love this one. 

[00:08:22] Angela: See, you're a lot more tech savvy though, than I am. And then, and then I worked in IT for 

[00:08:26] Jen: 30 years and like not as a developer, but I know how to figure stuff out. Yeah. 

[00:08:33] Angela: Right. And I think it's really important to share this because so many people, myself included, you know, even just, you know, The microphone and webcam or what have you, like, that's intimidating.

Sometimes you're like, I don't know what I'm getting. I don't know what I'm looking for. You know, 

[00:08:49] Jen: well, that's where, you know, I just, I research. A woman I trust who does podcasts and she was looking for a new webcam. Someone she really trusted recommended the Brio. I was like, okay, you know, I'll try it out.

And then I was like, yeah, I'm going to stick with this one at least for a while. But then I bought two softbox lights. Okay. Um, what I'm experimenting with is normally they're angled towards me, but I was watching a video on lighting today and she angles them towards the wall and then the light bounces off.

So I'm really curious to see the video on this and see, cause I was testing before we hopped on to record and I think I like it this way better, but I don't, I don't know. 

[00:09:32] Angela: Okay. Typically I do record audio video. But for this podcast, I'm just doing audio just literally for ease of mind. But if it does have any video that I could send you, send it to you.

Yeah, because I loved your lighting before, even when you first started. I was Oh, really? Like, oh, I love your lighting. I, I think your lighting is great too. I've been working on it since you and I chatted. Okay. Like it's, it's, and I put this like very sheer T-shirt. Okay. I'll send you a picture later over my ring light.

And it has made all the difference. Because when you're wearing glasses, the reflection is crazy to try to manipulate and control. So I would say just throwing a T shirt or a sheet or whatever you have over your ring light helps a lot.

[00:10:19] Jen: Because you look nice, like filtered isn't the right word, but it's not harsh.

I don't know the right words because I don't, I don't, I'm not a techie when it comes to lighting. I'm a techie when it comes to tools and all of that stuff. 

[00:10:32] Angela: Yeah. And I'm still working on like, it's so funny, like nobody can see this, this thing, but behind me, there's this lamp that, During a certain part of the day doesn't do the lighting it's doing right now.

I've got so many windows that I can cover. And then there's a portion that I can't cover. So the lighting is a big deal in my room. And you were mentioning yours is really dark. So like you're working with trying to light it up and I'm doing the opposite. I'm like trying- 

[00:11:00] Jen: What I love about us though is we are two women in our fifties who are figuring things out as we go along.

Like we were not raised with. This technology with these capabilities and we're just having to, you know, work our way through it and learn and learn from others. 

[00:11:18] Angela: And that's the biggest thing for me. Like I'm sure with podcasting for you, it's probably the same thing. Like just connecting with other people and having these conversations are- like the conversations we're having for our podcast are great.

But I also want to have these conversations of like, what are you using? I want the behind the scenes. What are you using? How's it going? What's going on? Because you kind of feel alone sometimes when you're like, you know, does this webcam work? 

[00:11:44] Jen: yeah, I don't know. 

[00:11:44] Angela: You know, is there a better one out there?

Should I throw a t-shirt on this thing? You know, unless we share this stuff, like, you're right. You don't know. 

[00:11:51] Jen: It started with the webcam is I did my first YouTube video. It was the trailer for my new show, and with this, with this new show, I really wanted to do video. That's like, that's me pushing the edge of my comfort zone, but in a way that I really wanted to, right.

My daughter watched it, she's like, you sound great, you look great, but your lighting's pretty bad. And I'm like, oh, what do you mean? So she shows me some of her favorite YouTubers, right? Which are like highly produced and all that. I'm like, okay, well, I'm not gonna that produced, right? But let's see what I can do to make it better.

So anyway, when I got the Logitech Brio, when I was testing it out, I had her watch. She's like, that's so much better. So I'm like, okay, I got the Gen Z stamp of approval. Nice. 

Getting back behind the mic

[00:12:34] Angela: Nice. So how is that going? Like you and I recorded September 17th. I was your first guest. Yeah. And I looked that up, and I was like, when was that?

So it's been like six weeks. How's it been going since then? How is first week, six weeks back into podcasting? 

00:12:50] Jen: Yeah, you know, it's going great. I'm, I'm trying to find the balance between solo episodes and guest episodes, right? Because I want to, I'm so sorry, my dogs are barking. Is it okay with that, though?

How is it going? It's going. It's going great. I there's a lot of interest in being a guest and I, you know, I love the conversations, but I also want to highlight my expertise, my thought leadership and so and that's it is again pushing my the edges of my comfort zone. But in a way that I really that's how I want to grow as a leader in my space.

And so I'm doing it and I'm working through all those feelings and I'm absolutely loving it. And, I think you and I have talked about this, is I'm trying not to over edit. I don't want it to be perfect and, you know, every, every, every um taken out. And so it's finding that balance, but right now I'm loving it.

But we've talked about, it is such a labor of love, like, 

[00:13:49] Angela: yeah

[00:13:51] Jen: and working through my, my processes with, especially around the video editing and sharing, you know, I'm learning. And so it takes longer. 

[00:13:59] Angela: Yeah.  

[00:14:00] Jen: That's how, how about you? 

[00:14:02] Angela: Well, I'm with you on the ums and the uhs, like I try not to, I try to take out the majority of them, if possible.

I do. But there are some that I want in there just because like, if I were to take it out, it just sounds really bad without it. It really does. It sounds like it's not a conversation. And so I'll keep it in there. 

- GOT KICKED OFF THE RECORDING -

[00:14:24] Jen: It just kicked you out? 

[00:14:26] Angela: Never had that happen before. That is a new thing. But hey, that's part of it, right?

I'm glad it happened with 

[00:14:30] Jen: me. I am like the most easygoing person. 

[00:14:33] Angela: Yes, me too. Me too. But back to what you were saying, like, as far as editing, you know, one thing I'm struggling with right now, Is there's always like it, well, not always there's every now and again, there'll be one thing that somebody is, because I always want my guests to sound better than I do.

So I try very hard in the edit to like, if they're stumbling or whatever, take some of those things out for two reasons. One, it makes them sound better to, for the listener, to be honest. It's like, I don't want to listen to those things. You know, like I don't mind, uh, Like a normal stumble, like I'm doing right now, that type thing.

Yeah. But if somebody is like really struggling or there's like really a difficult part, I'm going to take that out because it just doesn't serve a purpose. It doesn't add any value. It's hard on the listener. 

[00:15:26] Jen: Yeah, I get brain farts. I blame my 54 year-old menopausal brain. Yeah, me too. And sometimes, you know, I just lose it.

Lose my train of thought. And you know, I appreciate having that taken out. I even- I had one guest the other week. She is a speaker, a national speaker. And so she, I wasn't getting my train of thought back and so she just like went into another subject and then I was able to get my legs back under me.

Yeah. But I'm like, oh, that was good. That was, yeah, that was good. I got to remember that for when, you know, the host maybe stumbles. What can I do to help the host out? 

[00:16:12] Angela: Well, like right now, the one I'm working on, there's literally one sentence that this person says that kind of sounds a little bad. Like, like cringy.

It's a little iffy. And I always struggle because I'm like, I don't want to take out actual content because I want it to be as organic as, as possible, but I also have those moments. There have been two that I can think of right now, including the one that I'm working on where I'm like, Hmm, you know, it's like when we're recording, I usually tell you or tell whoever I'm speaking with.

You know, if there's something that you say that you're like, Oh, I don't want that. Let me know. I'll take it out. Big deal. And I'm like, well, they didn't say that. So I don't want to take a liberty. Sure. Sure. 

[00:16:56] Jen: Do you 

[00:16:56] Angela: know what I mean? 

[00:16:56] Jen: Has it happened to you yet? Yeah. Is it a problematic thing? Like, if you think about your audience, your values, is it problematic to you, like what you believe and what your audience believes?

Believes a bit. It's on the way. Okay. Okay. And so then I do feel like as a host, you, it is your responsibility. Again, this is just Jen's opinion. Who's been out of the podcasting game for four years, but I feel like as the host, You are responsible to your audience and if it makes you a little uncomfortable, I think that's perfectly fine to edit that out, you know, and if the, if the guest comes and says, well, why did you take it out and just be like, doesn't really jive with what my audience, like, I don't think there needs to be drama or emotion behind it.

It's just like, I took it. You know, creative liberties. It didn't really, it's not going to sit well with, with my audience. I didn't feel comfortable leaving that, that little bit in. 

[00:17:51] Angela: Right. That's a good point. And we do, I know you do, and I, I do the same. So we. We send out, you know, in the guest room, so that we have liberties that we take, like you just 

[00:18:01] Jen: said.

Yeah. But I feel like as the host, you are responsible to your audience, right? And if it makes you a little uncomfortable, I think that's perfectly fine to edit that out, is the way I look at it. True. And I feel responsible for my guests, too, to be honest. Yeah, absolutely. 

Giving your podcast permission to pause, grow, and play

[00:18:19] Angela: Absolutely. Well, let's jump back, like you said, you podcasted before this one.

Yeah. So tell me, like, what was your podcast before, how, what was your break, what brought you back and how's it going? 

[00:18:33] Jen: Yeah. That's a lot. That's it. I got it. I'm here to remind you. Thank you. Cause my brain will forget. The old show, the original show was called Going There and it was really organic conversations about things we don't typically talk about around the dinner table, but maybe should.

Okay. So it was a lot of, you know, I'm just, I'm so, I'm a collector of stories, right? And I'm a collector of any story that helps someone else, even just one person, not feel alone, including myself. And so I wanted to use the platform to really bring forth different voices and different life experiences to illustrate, even though the story may be so different, the feelings, the takeaways, the stories we tell ourselves behind the scenes are so similar.

We are not alone. And so, you know, I did that. I believe I had about 80 episodes when. It was, gosh, I think it was December of 2020, maybe. I was just, I was starting to get bored. It was, it was the same story over and over. And I have a lot of really wonderful friends in the online space. And I was finding that they were coming on less to talk about their story and more to talk about their work or their book.

And I didn't mind that being a, a small part of it, but I wanted the story. I didn't want a sanitized version and I, I just got bored. And so I loved the act of podcasting. I mean, being behind the mic is one of my favorite things ever to do. Uh, whether I'm a guest or the host, so I knew I was going to come back to it.

I didn't think I'd take a four year break or however long that was. It was multi year break. Right. But I, in that time I was, I was still kind of working on the last of my own. Who am I, what do I want to contribute to the world? What, you know, what is my thought leadership? How can I, how can I be a, bring a different perspective to an already noisy space?

Right. Right. And it took me that long to kind of work through, well, who am I, and you know, at 54 earlier this year, I finally stepped, I had done enough work that I finally stepped into owning those bits and pieces of myself. And all of a sudden I was like, Oh, here's what I want to do for the podcast…you know, and again, I remember the first podcast.

I had this Trello board full of, you know, every week the tasks I need to do. I was very methodical and I'm a project manager by trade. So I, this thing was very project managed, uh, a big old launch. And this time I was, there was no drama. It was just like, I know what to do. You know, go, go through the steps.

Don't be precious about it. And I believe I'm in five or six episodes now talking about how it's going and again, I'm still getting my legs under me and I'm, I'm playing with, you know, the show name has changed a couple of times. The show artwork has changed a couple of times. I'm playing with different intros, and so I'm having fun playing to, you know, what we said earlier, it's like, what is the vibe that I want to put out there?

What is the main message? And, and so I'm still experimenting. I might do, you know, a big launch quote unquote coming up here, but I kind of feel like I don't have to, I just want to roll with it and continue meeting people like you and, you know, doing what I love doing the most. 

[00:22:03] Angela: Well, I think that's the thing about podcasting.

We, you and I talked about this at the beginning where I was said, I don't really know what I want this to sound like yet. Like I have an idea. I have a general idea. And I think what we find when we start doing it is like, or at least for me in the execution, that's where things start to kind of shift a little bit.

And you have to allow yourself some room to play a little bit. And I think it's so important for anybody just starting a podcast or getting back to it or whatever, including myself doing this new one to remember you're not married to the music. You're not married to the format. You're not married to your intro.

Change this along. Yeah. And if you go back and listen to like some of your favorite podcasts from the very beginning, they sound completely different than they do now, you know, and it's because there's that room to change and evolve. And it's, I think it's a reflection of like us as people too, you know, like we change after so many years, we're different people and our podcast is going to reflect that.

Our voices are going to reflect that, our storytelling. 

[00:23:08] Jen: Absolutely. 

[00:23:09] Angela: Absolutely. 

[00:23:10] Jen: And I think too, you know, the giving myself the, the time and space to have fun or to play with it and experiment. You know, like I mentioned, doing video and solo episodes, it's pushing my edges in a really good way, but I know myself that if I go all in on this and don't give myself the room to play, it's probably not going to be sustainable for me.

I'll expect too much from myself. I'll be too frustrated when things don't go quite right. And so I really had to adopt, adopt this mindset of, I'm going to take my time, experiment and play and feel my way through it and it's working, you know, it's, and I think too, like coming off the old show where I just, I got bored and when you get bored, it comes through you, you try not to have it, but you, you almost can't help it.

And so after a while of like, I'm just kind of bored with doing the same old, same old and decided to hang it up. I don't know where I was going with that. 

Jen's podcast process

[00:24:17] Angela: No, it's okay. Because here's my thing. You're doing a weekly podcast, right? You said you have five or six episodes. That's a lot. Can you walk me through?

I'm, I'm in awe. And can you walk me through a process? Like, let's pretend we were recording right now for your podcast. What's your process to try to have it done? Okay. 

[00:24:39] Jen: So we record, right? With a guest. I am recording in SquadCast, I transfer it into Descript, which is supposed to be seamless and it usually isn't so that I have to like do some finagling behind the scenes to get it to render in Descript correctly.

I then do, I do just like a really quick listen through. How is our lighting? How's our sound? I usually don't go right into editing. I usually like kind of take a day because at that point I need a break. When I go into edit it, 

[00:25:10] Angela: yeah, I need a break a little bit, you know, it's like, I want to breathe. Yeah.

[00:25:14] Jen: Yeah. When I go into edit, you know, I'll, I'll first do the remove ums. I actually don't remove any other filler words because for me, like you said, I want it to feel organic. But if there's an overabundance of ums, that's just really annoying. 

[00:25:30] Angela: Yes, yes, yes. 

[00:25:31] Jen: And then I go through and I do my chapter markers.

Where does it make sense to put a, to put a chapter in? Are you doing chapters?

[00:25:42] Angela: Can I stop you? I want to stop you in there because I have a question about that. I've seen the chapter markers in Descript and when I listened to your podcast, I noticed that, you know, I think I was like, is she doing chapters?

Cause I'm seeing like a shift whenever you do that. Okay. So you're doing a chapter marker in Descript and it's automatically like when you, if you, if I'm listening to Apple or Spotify or whatever, I'm seeing those chapters. 

[00:26:07] Jen: Yep, the RSS feed. So I use Captivate as my host, and then even in YouTube, when I upload the video, it will put the, the timestamps, the markers in.

And I always, I didn't do that with the first show, but I always appreciated when I would go to someone else's show notes and I would see timestamps, right, and those are the chapters. I would see timestamps and it's like, Oh, I don't really care about this, but I do want to listen to this. I really appreciated the flexibility to not have to listen to the whole thing.

Or to look at the, to the chapter markers and be like, Hmm, you know what, I love the title, but I, I don't, I don't really think this is super applicable to me. 

[00:26:46] Angela: Oh, see, I want to force people to litsen 

[00:26:50] Jen: but that's why I'm doing it

[00:26:52] Angela: wait. Yeah, go ahead. That's cool. Okay. So is Descript doing it automatically for you?

You can. I know it has like that. You can.

[00:26:58] Jen: In Underlord, you can. Underlord. I don't love the results. So I just, it's so easy to do myself. And I think too. Like having that, giving a little space between recording and editing, I'm able to think on it a little bit. Like, okay, well, where are the natural chapter markers?

And early on, because I'm six in now, right? Early on, I think I did way too many chapters. So now I'm playing with like, what is, what is the natural? You know, what gives an outline without giving all the details away in the timestamps. So I go through and do that. 

Yeah. Chapter marker. I also, with the video, it's, I want to add some visual elements in there. So, you know, I might add in a GIF, um, you know, when you were a guest, I put your Instagram handle in there and it's like the transition to slide it in and slide it out. And so it's the. It's playing with the formatting of what is visually appealing to me, is what I'm playing with.

But again, I'm trying not to over, overdo any of it. So once I have that, and I download the final edited version, I think Descript's transcriptions are awful. So I upload it to Castmagic, right? Oh, I've never heard of that. Yeah, it, I bought a lifetime deal on AppSumo. I want to say I spent 60 bucks. It is so worth it.

That's not bad. No. That's great. You know, do I love that I have multiple tools? No, but the transcription from the script, in my opinion, like the amount of energy that I'd have to even clean it up and have it be unedited enough to share. I'm like, no. Cast Magic 

[00:28:43] Angela: That is the main reason that editing takes me so long, is to have to go through that.

And half the time I don't even upload the transcript because it's so bad. But let me ask you this. Like, when you upload a transcript to Captivate, you use Captivate, I use Buzzsprout, when you upload the transcript, do you know, like, you know how Apple automatically does their transcription? Does it override that one?

[00:29:08] Jen: I think so, but I don't, so with Captivate, you have to upload the SRT. The, the subtitle, and I don't love that, so I don't upload the transcript to Captivate. I don't think. Where, what I do use the transcript for are for my show notes on my website, because accessibility is important to me, and so I have a, a plugin I use on my site where I can upload the transcript and then from there someone can download it, they can, you know, blah, blah, blah.

And I even title it like mostly unedited transcript because I don't want, I don't want to make people to think that I spent a lot of time on it and then it's full of errors. Like I do that initial glance, but I don't go through it like I would have to with the script. 

[00:29:56] Angela: Yes. To share it. I did that with a Descript.

I say the same thing. Oh my God. I think it's almost similar. Mostly unedited. It's like, 

[00:30:03] Jen: how can one tool be so bad at transcription? I don't understand. 

[00:30:09] Angela: I did an episode called, um, Callarita Culture. So obviously that's a Spanish word and Callarita is C A L L A D I T A. It butchered it to no end, right? But so did Apple when I uploaded And I was like, I really need to transcribe that one.

I really need to get that one going because it really pained me to see, it was like with a G instead of a C, you know, it's crazy, but still it was painful. Okay. So you, 

[00:30:40] Jen: so I go into Cast Magic, and then I, from there I've trained Claude to, to my voice. And so I'll, I'll load the transcript into Claude AI.

And I'll ask it to give me kind of like a starting point for show notes, but then I only, I don't use that verbatim like whatsoever, but it's just to kind of help summarize it. Start something. Yeah, it gives me the seeds of it so that I just, you know, I copy that over into YouTube, Captivate for, you know, all of that.

And then from there I will go in and write the show notes. And once I have the show notes on my website written, and if it's a guest, I put together, which you didn't get this, this is a - last guest got this - but it's a Google doc with images, the embed, the link to the show notes. My links, you know, and I always invite people.

I never have an expectation to share cause I don't know your audience, right? It may not be relevant to your audience and I don't want to set this expectation that you share it. And so I'm very upfront, like I literally have no expectation, but here are the assets if you want to, but then that's my, yeah, yeah.

Oh, and then I, I'll use Underlord and Descript to make clips. And so then I go through the clips and, you know, and then, and then since I am using the script captions there, I'll need to clean up, but I may be cleaning up a few, not, you know, 25 minutes of an episode. 

[00:32:20] Angela: Yeah, that's, that's true. So how long does that whole process take you for one episode?

Cause I'm embarrassed to tell you what mine takes. And I don't even do all the things you do. 

[00:32:31] Jen: I mean, so to be fair, I'm still creating my SOP around it. I'm still, my standard operating procedure, I think that's what that stands for. I'm still tweaking my process. And it takes me a number of hours, but I'm, I noticed that I'm getting faster with Descript and especially video editing.

That's what takes me hours is just even the minimal editing I'm doing. Right. But a lot of it for me is like, well, what, what graphics do I want to put on this? It's like. What do I want my brand to, to be in this video? So it's making graphics for that and you know, blah, blah, blah. Oh, and then going into Canva and making the YouTube thumbnail and then making the, the image for my blog.

And, you know, I pull out quotes from, I grab a couple of quotes from the guest. And then if I said something that I'm like, that was pretty brilliant, I'll pull that one out, right. But I focus on the guest, but then I'm creating images for those. And so it. Like I have my templates now, but a lot of that time was like, what do I want the look and feel to be for this?

[00:33:42] Angela: Yeah. And all that takes so much time

00:33:43] Jen:. It's a rabbit hole and it's not, it's not moving the needle. That's just my brain's way of focusing on stuff that doesn't matter. 

[00:33:55] Angela: Yeah. It's so funny you say that because this is the stuff I've, I literally struggle with this. So on my other podcast, The Gay Podcast for Everyone, I tried to do all those things.

And I'm still trying to do all those things. And I, I have been trying to tweak my SOP for four years, you know, I mean, really, I still don't have it down. I still don't have any system that I'm happy with. I should - you know what I mean? Like, and nothing, it's nothing flows very easy. It has gotten a little easier.

Descript has gotten easier over the last few years. It's not perfect. But I don't have a rhythm down that I really like now with this podcast, I was like, you know what, I'm not going to do all those things. Or at least not yet. You know, I'm like, I'm getting started again. And I don't want to add 12 thing right when I'm just trying to walk one foot in front of the other.

And you bring up a really good point of it's easy to get distracted with all the other things. And it may not even give you a return on investment.  

[00:35:05] Jen: Exactly. You know, I know this about myself and I build in the time to do it and it's something that my brain, it gives me so much dopamine and so I do it.

But if your brain, if you're someone who it frustrates you and you're not getting the dopamine hits, do not spend the time on it. You will not get the ROI that you would hope for. I was just, this is what makes my brain tick. And I know that about myself. Yeah. 

[00:35:32] Angela: Well, and you mentioned something earlier, which I really appreciate, which is, you know, there is something to be said to kind of pushing the envelope and putting yourself in uncomfortable spaces so that you can learn and grow.

And that is one reason that I, with the other podcast, I am trying, although right now I've been a little absent this week. I do try to show up more often than not, or try to do something different because there are ways that I'm like, I want to really tell a story visually in this particular manner. But time is a real big factor for me.

Podcasting outside a full-time job

[00:36:07] Angela: And I'm sure it is for you too. I mean, we're both over 50, you know, full time jobs. So tell me about how that is factoring into everything because, yeah, you know, it's tough for me. 

[00:36:19] Jen: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's the context switching that really gets me. It's going from, you know, work Jen to podcast Jen to coach Jen to wife gen to dog mom Jen.

I do have three children, but they're, they're older, they're adults now. Right. So I don't, I, at least I don't have that. I think that for me, I'm able to like, this is my passion and my business and so for me it doesn't feel like work until it does . Yeah. 

[00:36:56] Angela: Well I was thinking too, you know, your whole thing right now is living your best in life.

Like that's the name of your podcast, right? Your Best Damn Life. So your podcast in. Hi, a lot of ways I would think is a reflection of you literally living your best damn life.

[00:37:14] Jen: Yeah. It, which is, it is never all sunshine and rainbows and puppies. I, and that's part of my message, right?

Is, you know, we don't toxic positivity or gaslight ourselves. There are very real things that happen. There are very real circumstances. There are very real systems of oppression. But even with that, how do you still move forward and live the best life that you can? And I mean, this isn't about my show, but that's kind of the gist of it.

But I don't, you know, like I said, I'm still having a lot of fun - with my first podcast, I edited the first episode and I was like, Oh hell no. So I, you know, I paid monthly to have it edited and that was great, but I was still doing so much behind the scene work. And this one, I'm like, I'm at this place where I'm, I'm hungry to learn, you know, and like I said, I have, I have a background in IT and systems and so spending extra time up front to create this SOP, I know is going to save me in the long run.

So I'm willing to invest that time right now and have it feel sustainable.

[00:38:32] Angela:  That's the biggest word is sustainable.. That's the thing in podcasting. I think that people, well, nobody told me how much work it was involved, but also when I first started, there wasn't like Instagram didn't look the way it does now, you know, four or five years ago.

It wasn't about reels and creating content in a much different way. It was just like the static photo. That was it. 

[00:38:53] Jen: Long caption or short caption.

[00:38:55] Angela: caption. Nobody was doing YouTube, you know, type thing. So when you scroll through social media and you see other podcasters. You know, doing all kinds of things that are really impressive, you start to wonder, you're like, well, am I supposed to be doing that too?

Because I don't have time to do that, or I'm not good at that, or I don't want to do that. Any of the above. You know, it can be like that. For me, it's a matter of time. 

[00:39:22] Jen: you know, it reminds me of when I purchased a coaching group program, and it comes with these really pretty workbooks, these beautiful 

[00:39:31] Angela: PDFs.

[00:39:32] Jen: I love aesthetically pleasing things, so I'm like, Oh, these workbooks. And then I don't use them because they're not in a, in a format that is usable for me, maybe for others there, right? But so much time, money, energy goes into creating these really beautiful workbooks. And then someone like me isn't actually using them and it's not because they're too pretty, it's that give me a Google doc that I can go in and, you know, and so that's what I try to remember is that even if something looks really great, doesn't mean that's how people want to consume it.

Right. Some people are all about the aesthetics, but is it actually usable for your people? Because you can have all the pretty graphics in the world, but your people literally may not care. They may, you know, you could have the most amazing podcast intro, but if it's a minute long and they just want to get to the heart of it, they're going to move on.

Yeah. Right. 

[00:40:36] Angela: I always worry about that with my podcast. And then I kind of reel back. Because I hear different things. I hear some people are like, Oh, you know, don't make your intro too long. And then other people are like, I like that. And there's just the back and forth. And I finally got into the point where I'm like, I'm going to do what I need to do, and they don't want to listen, they don't want to listen.

It's okay. You know, you just kind of have to, to get to into that zone of like, I need to do what works for my podcast, and if it doesn't work for somebody else, that's okay, 

[00:41:07] Jen: know? I usually go with, cause I, I struggle with this too, but I, I've come to the place where I'm like, what do I like to listen to?

How do I like to consume content? How do I like to work in workbooks? And then that's what I do, and I trust that the people I attract will grok that as well. Yeah. If you're looking, I can create pretty PDFs, I can invest in that, but I don't use them. Right? And I want people to use my stuff. I want them to get in there and get dirty, roll their sleeves up, like.

You know, what have you, so that's, that's my, what I use is like, well, how do I like to do this? And then to take it a step further is doing that audience research, right? Pull your, your subscribers, like, how do you like, so true. You know, and that's for a lot of people, that's, that's outside our comfort zones of inviting feedback, right?

Anytime I do market research, I'm blown away with the information I get that I can use. 

[00:42:11] Angela: That's a good point because like for me, whenever I do that, like on social media, specifically, like in stories, you know, I might get like three or four people who actually respond. And then if I ask in my actual podcast, I don't hear anything at all.

So it's like, you also have to figure out. Where is the space that you ask these questions? It's not in stories for me. It might be just literally in the feed. I don't know, but you bring up a really good point of asking number one. And then where is the space that you're going to get that feedback the way you need?

[00:42:46] Jen: I have the best luck going on my personal Facebook wall and just saying, Hey, I'm doing market research for XYZ. If you're interested, you know, here's a link to the form or a link to schedule 10 minutes. Um, and then I'll, I'll even, you know, throw in like a five or 10 gift card sometimes for their time.

Right. Cause I don't, I mean, I want to value people's time. And I'm not saying that if you don't do that, you're not valuing their time. But often, so I give them the option, do they want it to like a coffee or tea, a local place that they love? Do they want to donate it to a nonprofit? And so it just gives something for the, for the person to be like, Oh, and I would say 9.9 times out of 10, they choose a nonprofit. 

[00:43:28] Angela: And I love that. That's really nice. See, this is why I love talking to you. And I- it's so funny. I hadn't, I haven't shared this with you yet. I wanted to tell you when I was a guest on your podcast. I don't know what happened. I don't know if it was your coaching or, you know, that came through or something, but there was some sort of energy for me that after that, I was just like on this energetic high.

And I think it was a lot of like, I was seeing somebody who was also, you know, also in her fifties, also had a full time job, also juggling fur babies and all this stuff. And you know, you have more on your plate than I do. And it was just like, you know, she allowed herself to take a break and she allowed herself to come back.

She'll, you know, she gave herself the permission to do all these things. She's giving herself the permission to show up weekly for now. And if that needs to change, it'll change. And it was just, I think it was just like this connection of not feeling alone. You know what I mean? Of like, I don't know other podcasters, very many other podcasters, women who were in their fifties.

That I can talk to, you know, like this and have them as an example. And it was just so great to just sit and have that conversation. And afterwards I was just like, I had like the little pep in my step of like, okay, she's doing this. I can do this too. You know? 

[00:44:55] Jen: I love that. Thank you for sharing that. You know, the very first iteration of the new podcast name was She Gave Herself Permission.

Because all my life, I've mentored a lot, and again, I do not have it all figured out. I don't pretend to, right, but I, I think I have this mentor, I, I like taking people under my wing. I see the possibilities in people, the potential, that's just, it's what I've always done, right. Professionally, personally, what have you, where was I going with this is that so much of it for me does come down to giving yourself permission.

And when I started doing that for my own life, cause I would have people come to me and like, Oh, you know, I love your red glasses. You know, I need to give myself permission or you're giving me permission to go have fun with my glasses. And I'm like, I'm you anything. I'm just. You know, this is just me, but I heard it so many times that that's where I was like, well, maybe the podcast focus needs to be about permission.

And I was like, that's, that's not quite where I want to hone in on, but permission is a very important aspect to me because we have so much more control over, over our lives than I think we think we do for so many reasons. And the only one, and I know that we know this, but the only one who can give yourself that permission is you.

And once you learn how to do that. It is so powerful. It is so powerful. Yeah. So, thank you for sharing. Like you went on and you created a lead magnet for a summit you were in or. Thanks to you. I was like, 

[00:46:36] Angela: Jen, I need to do this thing. What is it? I opened up a whole new world on Canva.

Oh yeah. Canva is amazing. Whole new world. I was like, I'm not finding what I need, but truly, you know, I hear women, especially as we get older, say we feel invisible or don't have value or what have you. And I'm like, we have so many stories to share and we need more women who are 50 and older and different walks of life, doing different things to share their stories and to show, and to, Be an example for other people that, yeah, you can show up, you can tell your story and it's needed.

[00:47:18] Jen: Well, that's happening. I love, especially on Threads. I love the support for women in their forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, beyond, like I have my role models. They're typically women in their eighties who are writing their first books or, you know, like, like we each have things that we look up to and I'm like, that's who I want to be when I'm.

80, 85, you know, if I want to write about the 13 - the erotic lives of 13 women at that age, like, why not? It's so fun to watch women our age kind of stepping up and owning that. And what's funny is right before this, I did put something on Threads of like, I see the same thing -Women are, I feel invisible.

And I'm like, I gotta tell you, like, I, I just, I give myself permission. To show up as me, it took me a lot of work to get there, but I did the work and I finally got there. But no less than three Gen Z guys came up to me in Whole Foods like individually last night and they're like, Oh my God, I love your hair so much, you know?

And I'm like, that's a normal occurrence. And it's only, and so I'm like, I, I don't feel invisible, but it's only because I give myself permission to, to, you know, to show up the way I want to, right? And that's it. It's not that I'm like this overly attractive person or something special or like any of that.

I am just very normal, down to earth, humble, self deprecating. I have my own stuff, right? But the fact that you show up and you just own who you are and what you want, I think that invisibleness starts to dissipate.  And the more people like you and I and others that are doing it, we're just showing other women, other people what is possible, right?

What they choose to do with it, that that's on them. We each get to have our own journey, all of that. But having examples of what's possible, that's what excites me. 

[00:49:19] Angela: Yeah, that's awesome. Absolutely. I agree. I won't keep you very much longer because your dogs need you (are barking) and I've taken up so much more of your time.

Final Question: The one thing no one tells you about podcasting is...

[00:49:31] Angela: You're good. I have one last question and you can take all the time you need or, you know, I'll edit it, but it's fill in the blank. One question. The one thing no one tells you about podcasting is….And it can be positive, negative. It could be, you know, not necessarily negative, but you know, advice, helpful, whatever it can be.

I appreciate using you. Wow. What's the one thing nobody tells you about podcasting in your opinion?

[00:49:58] Jen: (laughs) How much work it is. The labor of love. I think if people knew, well, I think this is why so many podcasts, like you go to look at them and they maybe have one or two episodes that are like four years old and that's it.

Because it's so much work. And I don't think we talk about how much it takes, even if you're sending it out for editing, even if you're barely editing, like it's still a lot of work. And so. If you're going into it, just know that and expect that and, you know, going back to permission - give yourself permission if it's not feeling enjoyable, don't do it, find another medium, do short form reels, I don't know, there's so many ways to get your message out there, this is just one of them.

But it is a lot of work.  

[00:50:45] Angela: So true. And that's exactly why I wanted to do this podcast is because I feel like there isn't a space where we're actually talking about it, you know, in this manner, I guess, you know, so I'm, I hope it's helpful to other people and I know just hanging out with you. It's a joy, period.

And this conversation has been really helpful to me. And it's nice as podcasters when you make this connection. I love that.

[00:51:09] Jen: Well, I think the other thing, and I think people probably know this, but the people you meet mm-hmm . Are the coolest people ever. Yeah. They're just the coolest, most down to earth, most wonderful people.

And I just, I think of all the people I've met, all the podcasters through the years and guests that I literally would not have and they are some of my favorite people ever. So the labor of love, that's a big part of why I do it. 

[00:51:33] Angela: I absolutely agree. That's so true. Well, Jen, thank you for joining me. It was fun.

It really means a lot. 

[00:51:40] Jen: Absolutely.